Highly Modified Taig with R8 Spindle/PDB and DMM 750W Servo

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Re: Highly Modified Taig with R8 Spindle/PDB and DMM 750W Se

Postby ThreeDJ16 » Wed Mar 13, 2019 11:36 pm

Vmax549 wrote:OK It took a couple of all nighters and many pots of coffee but it is possible to do slot# assignments in UCCNC. You use the stock tool table AND you do NOT have to modify the screenset so it can be used on ANY screenset.

Teh M6 can take the data and rotate the carrosel to the proper tool based on it's slot# assignment.

In UCCNC you simply call a tool# as normal and the script does the rest. Which makes it easier on teh CAM side when creating programs. Both tool table can be exactly teh same . I also did a tool table import / export to be able to SYNC teh 2 systems CAM/Controller.

It will HOT SWAP as well for a dual arm ATC.

It took a while and was like cooking a TurDucKen or making a couple of laps around the moon just to get next door BUT it does work now ;)

So when you get the ATC up and running we should be able to fix you up.

JUST a note I have programmed 3 different type of lathe tool turrents for UCCNC so far. :)


(;-) TP

Wow, that's amazing and fast. Can't wait to get the design work finished.

So should just let UCCNC control everything or just tool spinning and tracking? I really want to keep 5 axis open and only loose one for the ATC. The arm stepper would be pretty simple on the arduino along with the other active parts.

Nice on the UCCNC lathe with turret. Basically because there was only one offset for each tool , went the lazy route and regretted ever since.

Thanks again for all the help.
-=Jaseni
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Re: Highly Modified Taig with R8 Spindle/PDB and DMM 750W Se

Postby Battwell » Thu Mar 14, 2019 11:26 am

are you trying to make it hot swap like the haas machines?
this is basically how i have my linear rack set to work- but everything is tracked and written to profile as the m6 progresses
mainly so if something goes wrong during a change- the macro has already written the status of each slot- ie tool 6 in slot 9 or slot 9 empty and available.
all the cam programs ive used only call the tool number- so thats all i look for to confirm the correct tools are available for the program running (loaded in a slot)
my carousel changer is being modified to this method too. (doesnt have a hot swap arm ) also doesnt have tool in slot sensors so the content must be tracked in software.
i just use field numbers for each slot and read and write to these. the length/diameter is read from tool table - as tool number after the tool change and probing if these values are 0.
( i started all this when we only had 20 tools and no slot numbers- but decided it was a nice easy way to go with it all- and pretty bombproof so far)
at the moment- apart from running the carousel motor to the next tool required before or after a change this can all be done in uccnc quite easily. ( ie motor is not out of bounds)- but hey-that only takes a second.
ps. i laugh at all the chaps who say they are going to use acrn to run their complex machines- good luck with only a few io and a silly complex scripting language.
Uc300eth on router and mill
If they say it can't be done- I find a way!
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Re: Highly Modified Taig with R8 Spindle/PDB and DMM 750W Se

Postby ThreeDJ16 » Thu Mar 14, 2019 9:15 pm

Battwell wrote:are you trying to make it hot swap like the haas machines?
this is basically how i have my linear rack set to work- but everything is tracked and written to profile as the m6 progresses
mainly so if something goes wrong during a change- the macro has already written the status of each slot- ie tool 6 in slot 9 or slot 9 empty and available.
all the cam programs ive used only call the tool number- so thats all i look for to confirm the correct tools are available for the program running (loaded in a slot)
my carousel changer is being modified to this method too. (doesnt have a hot swap arm ) also doesnt have tool in slot sensors so the content must be tracked in software.
i just use field numbers for each slot and read and write to these. the length/diameter is read from tool table - as tool number after the tool change and probing if these values are 0.
( i started all this when we only had 20 tools and no slot numbers- but decided it was a nice easy way to go with it all- and pretty bombproof so far)
at the moment- apart from running the carousel motor to the next tool required before or after a change this can all be done in uccnc quite easily. ( ie motor is not out of bounds)- but hey-that only takes a second.
ps. i laugh at all the chaps who say they are going to use acrn to run their complex machines- good luck with only a few io and a silly complex scripting language.

That is the eventual plan - Haas like ferris wheel and dual arm. But as I mentioned in an earlier post, just feeling out what works, how difficult the coding will be and the best methods to run the ATC. Sounds like maybe staying all in UCCNC might be easier than running a stand alone pic or arduino for the actual change process. The thing about it is I'd really like to stick either to all 24v or pneumatic (which will also be 24v solenoids). My thought was why have two components when you can do it with one. A 2" linear actuator is pretty cheap, use a stepper for turning, run it and all functions required from an Arduino and only use UCCNC to drive the ferris wheel and tell the arduino, tools there go change it. I don't have specific plans for 5th axs anytime soon, but just can't see wasting an axis for the arm. Or go full air with an air rotary actuator and cylinder, but then we still have to control them all via solenoids. Not sure if there is any real advantage other than the linear actuator is pretty slow moving the arm up and down (5 secs), which isn't that big of a deal. So sorta curious what other folks are using for arm rotation and pull up/down?

So is your hot swap code in the macro section by chance? Hoping this weekend to get in some play time with UCCNC macros. While I've not written any from scratch, I've modified several to suite my needs. Trying to link up all my computers right now....freakn damn Win10. I don't feel like working on the computers in the tool room...LOL...so remoting them all. Screw it, think I'm just going to use TeamViewer as the Win10 built in remote desktop sux.

Yeah, I think a lot of people buying Acorns have no idea what a mess they're getting in to. 8 - I/O sux on all but the most basic setups. I'm using all my inputs between the turret, dual Z ref homing and a couple other things. LOL...they've also been promising an I/O addon card for well over a year and still nothing. To me, everything about Acorn seems beta (which is funny as I'm in their beta program and see what messes they create).
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Re: Highly Modified Taig with R8 Spindle/PDB and DMM 750W Se

Postby Vmax549 » Thu Mar 14, 2019 9:46 pm

Hot swapping only really applies to a dual arm ATC.

IF you build your Carousel drive like the older HAASs ( Geneva drive) then you do not need any axis control .

IF you need massive local I/O I do not think it would be hard to build a High count Modbus board to work with UCCNC. It could run inputs direct and local outputs as relays . Or there is always USB/relay boards by the dozen out there.

AS to linear or rotary motion there are many ways to do it.

Gear
Chain
belt
rack/pinion
rotary actuators
linear actuators
Air actuators
air/hyd actuators
etc.etc

(;-) TP
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Re: Highly Modified Taig with R8 Spindle/PDB and DMM 750W Se

Postby ThreeDJ16 » Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:13 pm

Vmax549 wrote:Hot swapping only really applies to a dual arm ATC.

IF you build your Carousel drive like the older HAASs ( Geneva drive) then you do not need any axis control .

IF you need massive local I/O I do not think it would be hard to build a High count Modbus board to work with UCCNC. It could run inputs direct and local outputs as relays . Or there is always USB/relay boards by the dozen out there.

AS to linear or rotary motion there are many ways to do it.

Gear
Chain
belt
rack/pinion
rotary actuators
linear actuators
Air actuators
air/hyd actuators
etc.etc

(;-) TP

Not interested in the Geneva drive, with the ferris wheel, we can get 12 tools in a roughly 9" wheel.

The air rotary will add an extra component to stop it at 90 degrees, which is why I was reverting back to a stepper and timing belt drive. I guess going ahead and using up b/c axis would be best as that would give a very easy method to zero the stepper at exactly the right spot. Not sure about where switches are a must and a nicety. So with my lathe turret, I actually home it each startup. So maybe just use a cheap AMT102 on each drive and just use the Z pulse or go crazy and pull the full A/B quad signal so if something does cause a lost step, it could catch up before moving on. Arm up/down, probably a must have switch and now things get fuzzy. If I use encoder feedback, I could do away with arm position switches. Tilt the cup over based on the encoder being at the correct spot. I don't know, just thinking out loud. Both stepper would be 1 to 1 timing.
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Re: Highly Modified Taig with R8 Spindle/PDB and DMM 750W Se

Postby Vmax549 » Thu Mar 14, 2019 11:11 pm

This is about the smallest dual arm ATC I have seen. Dave did a great job on it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJu-hPrb6pk

(;-) TP
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Re: Highly Modified Taig with R8 Spindle/PDB and DMM 750W Se

Postby Battwell » Thu Mar 14, 2019 11:37 pm

That’s a nice arm design. However using a servo direct to a carousel would be just as fast as rotating the arm.
I converted a ortza machining centre with 16 tool carousel which could rotate 360 degrees in half a second.
More time was Lost with 3 second spindle stop/ start.
Mechanics design isn’t my strong point, working around things in software is where I can make my money :-)
Uc300eth on router and mill
If they say it can't be done- I find a way!
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Re: Highly Modified Taig with R8 Spindle/PDB and DMM 750W Se

Postby ThreeDJ16 » Thu Mar 14, 2019 11:40 pm

Vmax549 wrote:This is about the smallest dual arm ATC I have seen. Dave did a great job on it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJu-hPrb6pk

(;-) TP

THAT IS AWESOME! And exactly what we want to make, except TTS. I've watched the vid several times now and it's just ...WOW. Beautifully built too. Wonder if he would make a TTS version...LOL.

What is his website or FB? I don't see or hear him mention anything about where to buy.

Edit....oh, he is the Fadal guy. Yeah, I can only dream about making (or buying) something that nice.
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Re: Highly Modified Taig with R8 Spindle/PDB and DMM 750W Se

Postby Vmax549 » Fri Mar 15, 2019 12:19 am

Dave got in the business again created a few designs and produced a few machines then sold out the designs and retired again.

The thing is I have not seen ANY of his designs show up in the marketplace yet.

;) A TTS version would be a tuff design to make reliable.

(;-) TP
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Re: Highly Modified Taig with R8 Spindle/PDB and DMM 750W Se

Postby Vmax549 » Fri Mar 15, 2019 1:11 am

It would be nice IF we could get the tool table extended with a few more fields. The top example is one I have been working with. The bottom one is the stock tool table.

IF the extra fields were there in the stock tool table we can make them useful and would finish out the tool table functions for general usage.

Just a thought, (;-) TP
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