Losing connection

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Re: Losing connection

Postby cncdrive » Thu Apr 19, 2018 11:01 pm

We running Windows 7 on all of our production machines for many years and never had issues.
All updates are disabled, so no surprises happen. :)

XP is also a good choice though.

And Win 10. will also work, but I personally don't like that you cannot disable updates. I mean you can on the non Home versions, but after some time Windows will switch it back on automatically.
I also don't like that updates are coming very frequenty and they often contain serious bugs which are then not corrected for months or for years.
A good example is the OpenGL bug which we had to find a workaround for which made some graphics cards not to run some OpenGL functions and hardware graphics acceleration to work properly.
This bug as far as I know is still not corrected and it had been released through the Windows updates a bit over one year ago.

So my personal opinion is that XP and Win 7 are currently better choices for controlling a CNC than Win 10.
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Re: Losing connection

Postby A_Camera » Fri Apr 20, 2018 6:14 am

cncdrive wrote:We running Windows 7 on all of our production machines for many years and never had issues.
All updates are disabled, so no surprises happen. :)

XP is also a good choice though.

And Win 10. will also work, but I personally don't like that you cannot disable updates. I mean you can on the non Home versions, but after some time Windows will switch it back on automatically.
I also don't like that updates are coming very frequenty and they often contain serious bugs which are then not corrected for months or for years.
A good example is the OpenGL bug which we had to find a workaround for which made some graphics cards not to run some OpenGL functions and hardware graphics acceleration to work properly.
This bug as far as I know is still not corrected and it had been released through the Windows updates a bit over one year ago.

So my personal opinion is that XP and Win 7 are currently better choices for controlling a CNC than Win 10.

You are right Balázs, even though I like W10 Pro a lot more than I liked any other Windows before and I run UCCNC under W10 Pro on several PCs, laptops included, but they are all newer and faster than the one the OP has. The main disadvantage of it is the constant updates, which can't really be disabled and that it is a resource hog, so if I would have an old, slow laptop I would not care about installing it, even if the laptop in theory is W10 compatible. The OP has an old laptop and that definitely did not come with W10, since it was not even available at that time, so my guess is that it is an XP machine and at best, it could be updated with W7, but personally I would leave that out as well.
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Re: Losing connection

Postby Makingtoothpicks » Fri Apr 20, 2018 8:39 pm

The machine has no problem running windows 10. Updates have been disabled by not connecting to the internet. I have a basic win10 setup. all modes are off.
I did work on the machine again to day. As soon as I ran the file it loses connection at about the same spot every time. I then ran a different file and it ran all the way.
So I redid the problem file and it went all the way. I do not know why the one file was causing problems and a new one ran to completion. To bad I deleted the
problem file I bet some one could see why it was causing a disconnect with UC100,

Thank You
Don
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Re: Losing connection

Postby cncdrive » Fri Apr 20, 2018 10:09 pm

A file will not cause the connection to disconnect. The connection disconnects if the controller is not receiving data packets for a certain amount of time and so it goes to timeout when it would be dangerous to continue the work, because that amount of time and the missing amount of datas would cause too much path error or other motion related issues.
Or if too data packets are errorous. If a data packet has error then the controller requests a new packet and if no errorless packet arrives for certain amount of time then again the same applies that it would be dangerous to continoue so the controller disconnects.

Errorous packets can be due to noise on the USB line which if happens is most likely a noise effecting the computer ground.
And missing packets can be due to computer overloads in case of a USB controller. In case of an ethernet controller it can be network overload or network missconfiguration, collisions and errors or LAN card driver problems.
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Re: Losing connection

Postby karlo terrazas » Fri May 18, 2018 3:56 pm

I´m having this problem from 2 or 3 times at day with the UB1, the PC lost connection with the controller. I made a router for industrial use 8 hours at day.

The router is connected in the same circuit with industrial milling machines, i'm gonna add a EMI filter to the electronics and see if that helps.

Also the PC is connected to the same circuit. does an UPS helps here?

I also have the probe for the auto zero routine wired from input Pin NPN to the touchplate and the other wire from 0V to the spindle mounting plate (which already is grounded to earth because of the spindle GND terminal)I don like the aligator clips could this be the issue?

Everything is grounded using the star method, i have motors and spindle cables shielded and connected only at one side.

I even use two control cabinets, one for the UB1 and drivers and one for the spindle only.

Any help or hints you can give me?

thanks in advance!
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Re: Losing connection

Postby ger21 » Fri May 18, 2018 4:18 pm

I'd look at the ethernet cable. Try a different one.
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Re: Losing connection

Postby karlo terrazas » Fri May 18, 2018 5:20 pm

ger21 wrote:I'd look at the ethernet cable. Try a different one.


i'm using a cat6 cable, 6 meters length, i will try with a short one
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Re: Losing connection

Postby cncdrive » Fri May 18, 2018 5:43 pm

Ethernet gives isolated connection which means that the 2 sides of the connection are not common grounds. The PC ground and the UC controller ground are not connected through the ethernet cable.
With ethernet the signal is transfered through miniature transformers built into the RJ45 jack of the UC controller and also the PC's network card circuit has a transformer.
So, the problem can't be what is described and what can effect a USB device because of the common grounds of USB communication.

And etherent communication can be wired upto 100meters by standard, so 6meters long cable should be also not a problem.

What the problem can be are:

1.) Noise effecting the computer motherboard and the network card badly. (Not likely, because then the computer would have other problems too.)
2.) The UC controller's circuit is effected by noise through it's power supply.
3.) There is a problem with the network card of the computer or the computer is not up to the task. (Check the latency graph on the profiles/statistics page in the UCCNC, it should never run to the max.20msec)
4.) The ethernet cable is broken or connection is loose.

If I were you I would also test the system without the machine running (machine powered but in idle), but in the same electric environment keeping the software up to see if it looses connection.
And if possible I would also test it in a different environment, e.g. when nearby machines are not running.
With these tests you could get some ideas if the machine itself is causing the problem or other machines around causing the issue or if it is something totally different if it happens in a different environment too.
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Re: Losing connection

Postby karlo terrazas » Fri May 18, 2018 6:14 pm

cncdrive wrote:Ethernet gives isolated connection which means that the 2 sides of the connection are not common grounds. The PC ground and the UC controller ground are not connected through the ethernet cable.
With ethernet the signal is transfered through miniature transformers built into the RJ45 jack of the UC controller and also the PC's network card circuit has a transformer.
So, the problem can't be what is described and what can effect a USB device because of the common grounds of USB communication.

And etherent communication can be wired upto 100meters by standard, so 6meters long cable should be also not a problem.

What the problem can be are:

1.) Noise effecting the computer motherboard and the network card badly. (Not likely, because then the computer would have other problems too.)
2.) The UC controller's circuit is effected by noise through it's power supply.
3.) There is a problem with the network card of the computer or the computer is not up to the task. (Check the latency graph on the profiles/statistics page in the UCCNC, it should never run to the max.20msec)
4.) The ethernet cable is broken or connection is loose.

If I were you I would also test the system without the machine running (machine powered but in idle), but in the same electric environment keeping the software up to see if it looses connection.
And if possible I would also test it in a different environment, e.g. when nearby machines are not running.
With these tests you could get some ideas if the machine itself is causing the problem or other machines around causing the issue or if it is something totally different if it happens in a different environment too.



Thanks for the reply.

Im gonna add a two stage Emi filter, for the 110V AC mains to filter the 24v power supply going to the UB1

The PC is new, its a I3 4GHZ, gigabit ethernet with energy saving features disabled, win 7. we are going to test in a different PC today.

We already check for loose connections and they are Ok.

We have this problem even with de machine in IDLE and when there is no milling machines around working. we are going to connect the router to a diferent AC110V circuit to see if that help and check for correct ground installations.

the latency graph is almost 0 ms all the time.

Thanks for your help
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Re: Losing connection

Postby cncdrive » Fri May 18, 2018 6:22 pm

OK, I see. If it is doing this also in no noise environment too then it should be something else than noise.
Also around 0msec latency means that the PC is up to the task and that the network card drivers are also installed properly.

I would also test the power supply to make sure it is not loosing output power for any short times, if you have one other at hands then try to exchange them.
And as far as I remember there is a DC/DC converter module on the UB1 which powers the UC300ETH module, so maybe that module has a problem which is just a guess now, but please ask CNCroom about how to measure that out. I would put a scope probe on it for falling edge trigger to see if the module not loosing power for even short times.
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