help with Nowforever VFD configuration

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help with Nowforever VFD configuration

Postby dPowell » Sat Sep 15, 2018 4:24 am

I've converted to UCCNC/UC100 USB and would like to add my VFD/Spindle into the software configuration and let UCCNC manage it. I have high confidence in what I did in steps 1 and 2 below. I feel my issue may be in step 3 since this is where I could not find clear instructions.

1. The Nowforever VFD is wired to the Gecko540 per their specifications (including the proper grounding).
2. Using the front panel interface, the Nowforever VFD was then programmed to receive commands from the Gecko/UCCNC software.
3. The UCCNC spindle control was configured from a MACH 3 xml file that I found on Gecko's web site. These settings were not adjusted since they appeared to be correct for frequency and duty settings but I must admit that I was confused on how the UC100 translates PWM pins/ports and relay settings

I've given it my best shot and it didn't work. Can anyone point me in the right direction.
dPowell
 
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Re: help with Nowforever VFD configuration

Postby dPowell » Sat Sep 22, 2018 4:51 am

Wow, dead silence... Lets try this again but with a bit more detail...

My 6040 CNC controller met an early demise this year. I hooked up with the corvetguy and replaced it with a Gecko540, UC100 interface, and UCCNC software. Simple set-up...Machine was up and running in a day but I could never get the VFD to operate through the software/Gecko interface. Got tired of fighting it and just went manual for about six months. I'm ready for a fresh go at it. My challenge is cross referencing settings from the older parallel controller running under MACH3 to the new UCCNC software. Both software packages uses a slightly different naming convention for their settings in a couple of areas and I believe I am hung up on terminology . I just need help translating settings between the two...

Below are some cross reference screens for what I believe to be correctly mapped and/or information from the Gecko manual and Mach3 Spindle profile. Last notes... I assume I leave the Step/Directions Spindle settings disabled and I couldn't map Spindle feedback in UCCNC to anything similar in MACH3...

PWM Spindle/VFD
1.5KW water cooled
400 hertz.
Attachments
Picture1.jpg
This shows the pin out from the Gecko 540. Thes Pin numbers (14,15,16) have been input into the UCCNC configuration file. Also note that Main Terminal block illustrates the wiring to the VFD. (Pins 7, 8, 9) are wired to their appropriate connections on the VFD.) (double checked for continuity between both devices)
Mach3.jpg
This is the spindle setting from the old MACH3 profile.
Engine to Spindle Relays.jpg
This is a guess for the cross reference for Spindle relays... I'm not sure if this is even the correct grouping since the labels/titles don't align between the two software packages.
PWM Spindle.jpg
This is what I believe to be the cross references between the MACH3 screen and the UCCNC screen for PWM Spindle setting
dPowell
 
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Re: help with Nowforever VFD configuration

Postby Robertspark » Sat Sep 22, 2018 7:49 am

Try these settings as per image


not convinced that the spindle will run from 0 - 24,000 rpm (but I've not got such a spindle to test)

Your Mach 3 did not use M4 (CCW spindle rotation), hence don't set the pins for it (check output #3 in your mach3 screenshot its not enabled)
Attachments
22-09-2018.png
Rob
Einstein ― “If you can't explain it to a six year old, you don't understand it yourself”
...working my way through the 1000+ ways things don't work to find the one that does
UC400eth, UC300eth, UCCNC v1.2106, Neuron Lite
UCCNC v1.2105 Macro Manual
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Re: help with Nowforever VFD configuration

Postby Robertspark » Sat Sep 22, 2018 10:16 am

I'm not convinced by the spindle rated 0rpm to 24,000 rpm, not by the upper rpm, but the lower RPM.

Power is a function of torque and rpm, same torque, higher rpm = more power.

A quick calculator here: http://www.wentec.com/unipower/calculat ... torque.asp

Lets presume your spindle is 100% efficient (it avoids splitting hairs and arguing the toss if its 60, 70, 80 % efficient.... but you'll find the higher the RPM the lower your efficiency because of motor losses, drag on the bearing etc), efficiency also has a "sweet spot" so it won't have a higher efficiency at the lowest speed, its normally ~2/3rds in the rpm range where peak efficiency is hit
Therefore a 1.5kW rated spindle can only ever develop 0.6 n.m. (5.28 lb.in) of torque

So at 500 rpm it can at most develop 30 watts of power, and at 1000rpm 60 watts of power etc.

There was some discussion here about minimum spindle speed, and I thought it would be about the 6000 to 8000 rpm range.
https://www.cnczone.com/forums/spindles ... speed.html

So if it was me, I'd set it up like this and see how it goes (the reason being is it will give your PWM signal a more defined range from 0% to 100% = say 6000 rpm to 24000 rpm which means that at 6000 rpm, the spindle motor is looking for 100hz, and will produce (at most) 380W (25% of motor rated output power)

I found "A" manual here for your drive (I'm not sure if it ACTUALLY is).... its just a Nowforever VFD {check the model numbers}
https://www.docdroid.net/NYibeDM/nowfor ... df#page=39

P0-008 = 100Hz (6,000 rpm)
P0-007 = 400Hz (24,000rpm)

P0-022 = 100hz (6,000rpm)
P0-024 = 400hz (24,000rpm)

You may also want to consider calibrating P0-021 and P0-023 to the range of the analog input signal to the VFD.... sometimes the output from some PWM to analog signal converter devices / circuits is non linear (i.e. they can only give a maximum output of 9.6V..... in this case I would change P0-023 to 9.60). Note: P0-021 and P0-023 are to two decimal places..... Ie in theory they have 1000 steps from 0.00v to 10.00, and your spindle has to ramp from 0rpm (or 6000 rpm if you set it up as I've suggested) to 24,000 rpm, so the increments will be 24rpm / step (or 18 rpm per step if setup as per my suggestion), hence some degree of calibrantion is recommended. The best way to do this calibration would be with a spindle trigger signal so that the actual spindle speed can be read within UCCNC and then you adjust the Po-021 and P0-023 when the spindle speed is set to minimum and maximum, and you adjust P0-021 / P0-023 in small increments to see if the actual spindle speed that way you find the exact range point. Measuring the voltage is not always the best way.... given the voltmeter and the VFD input may not be calibrated and may be reading the voltage differently.

Then I'd change the UCCNC spindle settings as attached screenshot.

Note: You will also have to change P0-002 (or P0-003 I can't understand the manual that well) to AIN1 (setting 2) or AIN2 (setting 3) depending upon which one you are using for your speed input from the gecko

Check you have the input terminals defined correctly to accept the M3 start signal from UCCNC via the gecko (P0-016, P0-017, P0-018 or P0-019, which ever one you are using as the spindle run signal (setting 1)
Attachments
2018-09-22 11_15_40-.png
Rob
Einstein ― “If you can't explain it to a six year old, you don't understand it yourself”
...working my way through the 1000+ ways things don't work to find the one that does
UC400eth, UC300eth, UCCNC v1.2106, Neuron Lite
UCCNC v1.2105 Macro Manual
Robertspark
 
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Re: help with Nowforever VFD configuration

Postby Robertspark » Sat Sep 22, 2018 12:14 pm

You probably also want to check setting such as P0-009 and P0-010 and how the correlate with the M3 delay after on and delay after off time as these settings give your spindle a chance to accelerate and stabilise it's rpm before progressing with the next line of gcode. 3 seconds was the setting from mach3 and is the setting I set for the screenshots but there is little to be lost from having it longer other than if you are running a production setup as it will add load to your spindle by way of jolt / jerk which is not nessesary IMHO

The default acceleration time is 15 sec in the manual (unless you change the setting)

Same thing with deceleration
Rob
Einstein ― “If you can't explain it to a six year old, you don't understand it yourself”
...working my way through the 1000+ ways things don't work to find the one that does
UC400eth, UC300eth, UCCNC v1.2106, Neuron Lite
UCCNC v1.2105 Macro Manual
Robertspark
 
Posts: 1117
Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2016 4:27 pm
Location: Nr Liverpool, England

Re: help with Nowforever VFD configuration

Postby dPowell » Mon Sep 24, 2018 4:16 pm

Thanks guys..
This is a lot to consume for a Hobbyist but I do appreciate the explanations. I pulled the current configurations from the VFD and listed it in the attached chart. The only settings I ever touched to get it to run Manual were P0-000 and P0-002. everything else remained untouched. I've entered in the new configuration (in Yellow) and updated the UCCNC software to your recommendations... The unit still does not respond. Tonight, I will pull voltages off AN1 terminal to verify UCCNC is sending signals to the VFD. I could have opened circuit when I moved it from the test bench to the production unit.

The manual you referenced is the one I've been using. The documentation has a lot to be desired and that's been part of the challenge so far... If I don't get this resolved in the near future, I may end up replacing the VFD and Spindle with something that has a better documentation and a strong user forum. (I may seek advise if that becomes the ultimate fix! )
Attachments
Nowforever .xlsx
(10.37 KiB) Downloaded 31 times
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Re: help with Nowforever VFD configuration

Postby Robertspark » Mon Sep 24, 2018 6:07 pm

How have you wired it up (have you a sketch / can you explain what you've wired from the Gecko to the VFD {pin numbers or names}?

I presume you had it working just fine with Mach3 {can you confirm?}

If so then wiring is the likly cause / issue.

Apparently there is a jumper for setting the AIN1 & AIN2 0-10v or 20mA signal too { if NOT working previous, check jumpers}


https://www.cnczone.com/forums/attachme ... 1514688594

There is also a bit f a discussion here with the P0-xxx settings listed someone else was / is using {sorry could not read it all}

https://www.cnczone.com/forums/chinese- ... 6-cnc.html

I would check the wiring if I were you next, I'll have a think if I've missed something between the UC100, Gecko540 and VFD.
Rob
Einstein ― “If you can't explain it to a six year old, you don't understand it yourself”
...working my way through the 1000+ ways things don't work to find the one that does
UC400eth, UC300eth, UCCNC v1.2106, Neuron Lite
UCCNC v1.2105 Macro Manual
Robertspark
 
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Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2016 4:27 pm
Location: Nr Liverpool, England

Re: help with Nowforever VFD configuration

Postby Robertspark » Mon Sep 24, 2018 7:18 pm

Think I figured out what it may be.... G540 wiring naming....

Can you check the G540, and the wiring for me from the G540 to the VFD.

It should be wired as follows:
G540 terminal Block Output 1 (pin5) should be wired to VFD terminal X1
G540 terminal Block VFD Ground (pin7) should be wired to VFD terminal COM {nearest AIN1
G540 terminal Block VFD Output (pin8) should be wired to VFD terminal AIN1
G540 terminal Block VFD +10VDC (pin9) should be wired to VFD terminal +12V
G540 terminal Block Power Supply Gnd (pin12) should be wired to VFD terminal COM {nearest X1}
Rob
Einstein ― “If you can't explain it to a six year old, you don't understand it yourself”
...working my way through the 1000+ ways things don't work to find the one that does
UC400eth, UC300eth, UCCNC v1.2106, Neuron Lite
UCCNC v1.2105 Macro Manual
Robertspark
 
Posts: 1117
Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2016 4:27 pm
Location: Nr Liverpool, England

Re: help with Nowforever VFD configuration

Postby dPowell » Tue Sep 25, 2018 3:31 am

So far, I believe we are synched up on our notes. I drafted a wiring diagram when I first set the system up. Its attached below and I've verified the actual wiring mirror this schematic. I got stuck at work for an extended period today so I didn't get a chance to test connections tonight. I should be able to get that done tomorrow. On a quick side note, I found a youtube video that talks about the VFD front panel configuration and also shows the wiring from the controller... The wiring section is around 15.35 minutes into the video. Overall, It references the same VFD model, the original wiring from my Chinese controller, and settings so it may be useful on your end. The vidoe is located at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lncconN83G4&t=681s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lncconN83G4&t=681s

Again, I really appreciate your input. Its been a great learning experience.
Attachments
Gecko Wiring to VFD.jpg
dPowell
 
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Re: help with Nowforever VFD configuration

Postby Robertspark » Tue Sep 25, 2018 6:44 am

that wiring schematic is wrong, I'll have a look at drawing something up shortly.

a) you have no means to tell the VFD to run / start + its direction to run.
b) I "think" the VFD analog input wiring "may" be wired up wrong
c) the common wiring for the limit switches should be common to pin 12 of the gecko not the analog output from the VFD.

There is sort of a schematic here, but it will be a little confusing as some of it is not relevant, I'll try to sort you out a better one.
https://www.shopmasterusa.com/wp-conten ... 013-ON.pdf
Rob
Einstein ― “If you can't explain it to a six year old, you don't understand it yourself”
...working my way through the 1000+ ways things don't work to find the one that does
UC400eth, UC300eth, UCCNC v1.2106, Neuron Lite
UCCNC v1.2105 Macro Manual
Robertspark
 
Posts: 1117
Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2016 4:27 pm
Location: Nr Liverpool, England

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